Question 1

OUR STANCE ON CONGENITAL MYOTONIA

Accepted Answer

For those unaware there is a lot of chatter amongst Nigerian Dwarf breeders right now over a recent case of a Nigerian being homozygous with Congenital Myotonia. This is a genetic neuromuscular disorder that causes muscle stiffness resulting in "Fainting." Yes, its the same trait seen in your Fainting goats, however it is a disqualification in the Nigerian breed. This disorder has been around in the breed in a recessive and rarely seen way for MANY years. The recent case being made public is the only one that many of my mentors have seen in a very long time in the breed. With a trait lingering though it was only a matter of time before it showed itself in such a manner again. We took some time to decide how we wanted to proceed with this.
With this all said we will be testing our herd but slowly and with the most realistic goats first. Our plan is after the holidays to begin with our bucks and move on from there. We will continue to gather information from other breeders as it comes our way and we will make responsible decisions for our herd moving forward.
I want to be clear, we had never seen a case of this in our herd nor have the fellow breeders we trusted to get our goats from. However, in light of things we cannot deny the responsible thing to do is to test when we have this test to do so. We just do not feel the need to rush given the holidays as we have never seen a single case to date. We will enjoy the holidays with our family and friends and we will revisit this after.
We fully understand the peace of mind that it will bring to our buyers. All bucks will be immediately tested following the holidays. If at any point a buyer is concerned about the doe they wish to purchase a kid from we will have the test done (provided the doe is not negative by parentage.) We will require that the buyer places a deposit on the kid to hold while the test is being done. If the doe comes back a carrier we will test the kid. If the kid comes back clean the sale will progress from there. If the kid does not come back clean then it will be up to the buyer from there and the deposit can be returned or the kid swapped. We feel that this is the best course of action to both protect the breed from this defect and maintain our transparency but also to keep the chaos and confusion to a minimum. Please as always feel free to ask questions and I will be updating the website with this policy as well. 
Once tested all test results will be posted publicly on the website with each animal's information. Any bucks that are carriers will unfortunately be culled from the program and we will weigh our options as to what actions to take with the does. Whats best for the breed is of our upmost priority, however a reduction in an already limited gene pool due to a closed herd book needs to be considered too.
UC Davis put this test out in October of 2024 and they have more information on their website for anyone interested.

Question 2

Do you routinely test for CAE and Johnes?

Accepted Answer

Yes. We test yearly to ensure that we remain free of both CAE and Johnes. We also maintain a closed herd.

Question 3

Can I come meet the goat/puppy before I commit to a purchase?

Accepted Answer

No. Unfortunately this cannot be allowed. I have no idea what you are bringing with you when you visit my property. Your pets or animals you have been around may have been carriers of something that you could unknowingly bring to my property. This could lead to my animals getting sick. Bacteria and viruses can live on many surfaces including the dirt that you have on your shoes, so with you just merely walking onto my property my animals will be at risk. I do not wear my farm shoes away from the house for this very reason. Also we are a working farm which means heavy equipment and guardian dogs as well as large animals. For insurance reasons and your safety we do not allow visits of this kind. However, I am willing to live chat with you and take you to my farm virtually if you are uncomfortable or would like reassurance on anything. I want nothing more than for you to be comfortable with your purchase.

Question 4

Can I get my deposit back if I change my mind?

Accepted Answer

No. All deposits are final and are not refundable unless the animal suddenly dies. If the animal is to die before leaving the property you can chose to transfer your deposit to another available animal or have it refunded.

Question 5

How do I pick up my goat/puppy?

Accepted Answer

WHEN PICKING UP YOUR GOATS we will meet you within ONE HOUR of our location in Springfield SC free of charge. ANY DISTANCE OVER ONE HOUR WILL BE CHARGED FOR FUEL. We will use the fuel cost calculator to determine the price in which we will charge. IF YOU REFUSE TO PAY FUEL COSTS THEN YOU WILL FORFEIT YOUR DEPOSIT AND THE SALE IS VOIDED. Transport beyond 1hr is at my discretion and is not always available. All pickups will be done at a meeting place decided prior to the sales completion.​IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT I AM ON TIME MAKE SURE TO CONTACT ME MORNING OF OUR MEET DAY. I will not leave my house with the animal(s) until I have heard from you. If you fail to contact me until you arrive or until youre on your way it is likely that I will not be on time. Please make sure that you contact me to make me aware that our meeting time is still good.​

Question 6

Should I get an older dog? Arent they more reliable and ready to guard?

Accepted Answer

LGDS ARENT PLUG AND PLAY!!
We try and breed the very best qualities and instincts that we can but contrary to what we would like to believe LGDs aren't magical unicorns and at the end of the day they are still dogs. They suffer the same stress as any other dog that gets uprooted from their homes, and honestly in my opinion are more affected by the stress due to their strong bonds made with livestock.
This is one of the reasons that I HATE moving older dogs. I have done it and will likely do it again because that's the nature of things. My puppies that I breed are ALWAYS welcome back at ANY time no questions asked and no matter what. So I have zero doubt that it won't be something that happens here. Puppies aren't into much of a routine. They are little sponges and are just beginning things so it's MUCH easier on them generally than it is a dog that has grown with a herd and has bonded and matured and lived with certain stock for a period of time. Older dogs get set in their ways and stress can be a funny thing sometimes.
While a LGD may be perfect in every way once they are uprooted from their routine, their stock and their home and their rules they are going to take some time to settle in a new place and with new stock and new rules. You are likely going to see behaviors that are out of character. You're going to have a 3 to 6 week (or so....because they don't read the book) period where things may be difficult or out of the norm and there may be things that are less than desired that happen. The best thing you can do is allow the dog time to settle. Keep things quiet and simple. Often times people get a lot of crap for saying this but I'm sure yall have heard of the "leave the dog alone and let them bond to the stock." Or the whole dreaded words of "hands off." This really IS necessary BUT not at all in the way people think. Typically these days humans find the need to "baby talk" to their dogs and give them treats and attempt to coddle in the way you would a human child to make the dog feel better. Or they want to be overly excited and emotional to a shy dog. Or with an excited dog they forget the structure because the dog is new and they want to be it's friend. When in reality these are all things that are going to add to the stress or escalate the bad behaviors that may come with the stress. Many become very annoying the longer they go on and they also can turn into other behaviors.
LGDs bond so tightly to their stock and for them its their life. They are fully devoted and they want to keep them safe and they will do anything in their means to do so. So imagine for a second if you took them away from their stock and said, here, have some new stock and protect them. On top of that most of these dogs aren't traveling with their humans to the dog park because they are useless as LGDs of they aren't in the field working. Think about the stress that is going to cause them! Where are their stock and who are these and WHY is this happening!? So the "hands off" concept simply means, keep your interactions quiet and to the point. Don't start day one and get them overly excited. Don't coddle them and give them hugs and do all of these emotional things with them. Dont give them baths or trim their nails or do any of those things that aren't life or death. Say hello, give a scratch or two, feed them with the same routine they are used to (or as close to it as you can) and be done. Keep yourself neutral and calm and simple. Then leave and let them spend time with the stock and watch from a distance, either in the pen quietly off to the side or from your porch and just let them do their thing. Give them time to settle and get acquainted with with stock. You are providing their needs to survive, their meals and their water, they WILL still like you even if you don't talk to them like their a toddler. And in time when they have had a chance to settle you can talk to them however you please and I'm sure you will get the same tail wags and goofy faces that I do when I do it to mine!! Lol But the first few weeks just isn't the time.
It doesn't matter how good of a dog they are they all handle stress differently, just like we do and just like all animals do when we make changes. To some it's a walk in the park and they take to it well. For others it sends them into a panic and they do things they never would before, like want to keep the stock in a certain part of the pen. For others they get overly excited and behave incorrectly with the stock trying to release their stress. Each dog is different and if you are wanting to take on an older LGD please keep these things in mind. They are not plug and play. They will need time to adjust and get reacquainted with their new responsibilities. Be smart in the stock you choose. Be fair and give them the time they need, but don't hold the first few weeks against them.

Question 7

How do I select my puppy?

Accepted Answer

After the breeding has taken place and the pregnancy has been confirmed I start collecting a waiting list for the litter. It is free to get on this list. NO DEPOSITS ARE TAKEN UNTIL THE PUPPIES ARE A WEEK OLD. Those on my waiting list get told a few days in advance that I will begin taking deposits and they are allowed to place them before it is publicly open. THE PICKING ORDER IS NOT BASED OFF THE WAITING LIST BUT OFF OF THE ORDER I RECEIVE DEPOSITS. I do it this way because many people get on the waiting list and then take days or weeks to send their deposit and its not fair to others that have placed theirs in a timely manner. It has become my standard policy to not hold anything without a deposit and this includes picking order.
PLEASE NOTE: That I frequently have puppies that go home in pairs. When this happens these PAIRS TAKE PRIORITY OVER THE PICKING ORDER. My biggest concern is for the dogs and their well being and I wont comprise that. Puppies are paired according to their preferences and needs. Some pups would do best with a buddy to play with or keep them company and others would be just fine on their own. I will make my pairs before opening up what is available for you to pick from.
Once the puppies are roughly 5 weeks of age I will begin going through my picking order and speaking with you individually. If it has not been discussed previously I will ask you what you want in your puppy. What do you expect of your puppy? What personality are you interested in? What things take place at your farm? How much human traffic? These types of questions help me to determine the pups that would be best suited for you and youll be able to select from those puppies that I deem suitable. I DO NOT SELL PUPPIES FOR THEIR COLOR! I know that some puppies are adorable and I know that youll have to look at these puppies and feed them, however, cute doesnt stay cute if the adult version of your pup isnt what you had needed or wanted. For this reason I will not allow people to select their puppies before the puppies are roughly 5 weeks old. Lots of things are visible to me by then and if youre willing to wait then I feel more comfortable with you getting my puppy. I feel more comfortable that you arent just out looking for the next cute addition but will be truly dedicated to the proper raising of a working livestock guardian dog.

Question 8

How do I get on the waiting list for a goat?

Accepted Answer

I no longer entertain a goat waiting list. It took up too much time to sort through only to get no answers from many, get told its bad timing or all sorts of stories and it just wasnt worth the time. Goats become available regularly and are always posted on my facebook page first as I dont have to take the time to sit down on the computer and update the website. Following us on Facebook will be the best way for those updates. GOATS ARE NOT HELD WITHOUT A DEPOSIT. They usually sell fast so I would have all of the "ask my husband" things taken care of prior to contacting me and be ready to place a deposit when you do.

Question 9

How does bottle feeding work? What do I need to do?

Accepted Answer

WHEN BUYING A BOTTLE KID, please follow our directions exactly. Some goats go home eating more than others, so there is not a one-size-fits all description of how to feed bottle goat kids. Typically, kids work their way up to 24-32 ounces per DAY, divided between 2-4 bottles depending on the availability of the buyer. Kids go home on whole cows milk (yes the same stuff that you buy from the grocery store) unless otherwise told differently. Please do not switch them cold turkey to anything else as it likely will upset their stomachs. We do not recommend the powder replacers because they are too inconsistent and often are rough on their system.​ALL KIDS ARE STARTED ON CALFPRO AT 3 DAYS OF AGE. Calfpro provides protection from coccidia. It does not treat coccidia however, and if a dose is missed or under dosing happens the kids can still get coccidia. If they become infected with coccidia you must stop dosing Calfpro and begin treatment. Calfpro is given at a dose of 1ml per 10lbs and continues until weaning or until kids are eating medicated feed consistently. We do provide the option for kids to go home with Calfpro. Calfpro can be syringe fed as well, we just find it easier to place in their bottle.​BOTTLE FEEDING - THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW WE HANDLE BOTTLE FEEDING HERE AT FIVE C RANCH, At birth we start the babies on on-demand feeding typically 4 bottles a day unless they are slow to take the bottle and eat a decent amount. (2-3oz) At 3 days old we begin giving Calfpro at a dose of 1ml per 10lbs and it is put directly into their bottles. Once the babies are eating 4oz a bottle consistently with every feeding we move them to just 3 bottles a day and we will raise their bottles to 5oz. We raise bottles one ounce at a time as the kids show us that they are still hungry after a bottle. We let them tell us when they need more. By the time that they are 6 weeks old we drop the lunch bottle and the kids are typically eating 12oz per bottle and have already began eating Kalmbach kid starter and hay. Once they are eating feed well we stop the calfpro. At 10 weeks we drop to just one 16oz bottle a day and offer fresh feed twice a day. We continue bottles until 16 weeks of age.​When you bring your kid(s) home they will be at least 2 weeks old. At this time, despite how I do things above, it is fine to drop the lunch bottle if it doesnt work for you. Make sure to have feed, water and hay available to the babies. A healthy kid will already be investigating hay and feed at this point and will begin eating if they get hungry. We feed bottles like we do for max growth out of our kids for the show ring. But the babies will still thrive and do just fine on two bottles a day. If youre feeding calfpro then just move it to the morning or the evening bottle and just ensure that they finish the bottle. You also can stop bottles at 8 weeks or continue however long you'd like. When youre ready to wean drop to a single bottle for about a week (at least) to ensure the kid is eating nicely. After that you can remove 1 ounce at a time per day until the bottle is gone. We dont like to cold turkey wean especially in warmer weather as kids can have harder time adjusting.We do not recommend goat milk from untested animals. If you choose this option, we will not be available for advice on further care. We do recommend the goat replacer on Premier1 website. Be sure to follow the instructions exactly on the bag. We use red Pritchard teats and/or human baby bottles with an x cut in the nipple and suggest buyers having both on hand when bringing home goat kid(s). NEVER FEED WATER FROM A BOTTLE. ONLY ALLOW YOUR GOAT(S) TO DRINK WATER FROM BUCKETS, ETC.When taking bottle kids (or even adult goats) home, it would be best to keep them in a small, escape proof area for the first few days until they are acclimated to their new surroundings. Stress is a serious health concern for goats;  minimizing stress levels is key to good heath.

Question 10

What do I do when I bring my puppy home?

Accepted Answer

When you bring your working puppy home place them directly in with APPROPRIATE livestock. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! The livestock teach your puppy manners and appropriate behavior FROM THE START that you will not be able to teach them. I have raised your puppy with livestock from the start and I will make any issues I see known from the start, however they have been with my stock on my property and changing property and surroundings can and sometimes does cause an issue to arise. I want to make it clear though that you cannot fix the issue by removing the stock. Im a FIRM believer in preparing and choosing the best livestock to raise your puppy. BEFORE you should be worried about bringing a puppy home you should evaluate your livestock. If you dont have livestock that are familiar with LGDs or if you only have babies then you need to make a decision on how you plan to raise this puppy to do its job. The best livestock for raising a puppy are adult animals that arent afraid of your LGD and that are willing to put the puppy in its place when necessary. Your puppy will learn and understand more from the livestock than from any training you can give. Training behavior requires direction or a command. If you arent there to give that direction/command then there is no behavior and removing the dog from the stock weakens the bond that is detrimental to how an LGD works. It also creates a very confused dog and we strongly urge against this. Having appropriate livestock extremely important! I am VERY critical on my LGDS and I will NOT keep anything on my property, let alone breed one that does not have the natural instinct required for guarding livestock. This is a genetic trait and not learned behavior. Please remember though, young dogs will make mistakes while they learn the rules, remember they are wonderful but they are not unicorns. There traits make them unique and valuable but they are still dogs that will need time to learn their job.Also something that we want to keep in mind is that taking a dog that will be living outside full time and keeping them in the house weakens their ability to handle the weather as well as they could if they lived in it. We raise our puppies outside so that the weather changes are normal and their body can naturally build the ability to handle the extremes much easier. Think about it this way, If you grow up without air conditioning, yeah youll get hot in the summer but not nearly as hot as someone who grew up with air conditioning and is trying to be without it. It takes a great deal of time for you to adjust and youre miserable during that time. Its no different for the dogs. I trained for many years with working dogs and the kennel dogs didnt struggle nearly as bad as the dogs who were pets when they werent working and lived in the house. The difference in the stamina between them was absolutely night and day. And when I have a dog that is here to put themselves in the line of fire to protect my livestock, I want them to be in the best shape that they can be and have every advantage they can, especially if its an advantage that I can give them.

Question 11

Some basic goat care tips

Accepted Answer

For BASIC goat nutritional requirements, we suggest a pelleted goat feed for young and growing goats Most importantly they need roughage like hay. If you cannot provide safe brush for grazing then we recommend multiple hay types. Hay/Forage should make up the bulk of their diet. Read here for reasons why and what I feed my herd. There are lots of other things you can purchase to add and make a ration that suits your animals needs. As time goes on, you will have to research and feed what works for you in the amounts that work for you. Water is a necessity as kids begin to eat feed but do not be alarmed in bottle babies are not drinking water.Goats also need minerals. The easiest minerals to find are Manna Pro loose goat minerals from Tractor Supply. Blocks should NOT be used at the main mineral source, only loose minerals that are fed free choice in a feeder should be the main source. We supplement with selenium and copper, both can be purchased online. Here we use Premier1 mineral mixes or this breeder mineral to our animals that are bred/lactating.We also suggest you have dewormers and a coccidia treatment on hand prior to bringing a goat home.IF YOU ARE BUYING A WETHER, please be sure be balance your calcium and phosphorous at a 2:1 rate to as this is the best way to prevent urinary calculi. Another option is to provide adequate minerals that contain ammonium chloride or feed that contains ammonium chloride. Please research this if you are not familiar with it. An unbalanced diet as well as dehydration are the causes for Urinary Calculi in bucks and wethers. Occasionally, goats get lice. This usually happens in the spring, but can happen anytime. At Five C Ranch, we use a diluted permethrin based fly spray applied down the spine, Cylence, or injected ivermectin. While they can be life threatening if not treated, it is normal. External parasites can come in on straw, bedding, shavings, or other goats. Do not be alarmed if you notice lice on your goats, but treat them as soon as you see them. We recommend checking for lice at least twice a month during the Winter/Spring, and at longer intervals during the warmer months.

Question 12

If youre buying a buck/wether...

Accepted Answer

IF YOU ARE BUYING A BUCK/WETHER, please be sure be balance your calcium and phosphorous at a 2:1 rate to as this is the best way to prevent urinary calculi. Another option is to provide adequate minerals that contain ammonium chloride or feed that contains ammonium chloride. Please research this if you are not familiar with it. An unbalanced diet as well as dehydration are the causes for Urinary Calculi in bucks and wethers.

Read here to understand what I mean about raw behavior.

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